F1期间申请移民,combo卡入境后身份为AP,报税还有5000免税吗?

RT。读了一下treaty,感觉写得不是很清楚。F1身份理论上是没有了,但是也没有绿卡,属于中间状态?


读了一下treaty,说只要是以下的人就可以claim:

A student, business apprentice or trainee who is, or was immediately before visiting a Contracting State, a resident of the other Contracting State and who is present in the first- mentioned Contracting State solely for the purpose of his education, training or obtaining special technical experience

这里的 resident of the other contracting state 指的是中国居民吧。文件中有这个的定义:

  1. For the purposes of this Agreement, the term “resident of a Contracting State” means any person who, under the laws of that Contracting State, is liable to tax therein by reason of his domicile, residence, place of head office, place of incorporation or any other criterion of a similar nature.

  2. Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1 an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, then the competent authorities of the Contracting States shall determine through consultations the Contracting State of which that individual shall be deemed to be a resident for the purposes of this Agreement

全文没有提到任何visa或者I20等字眼,说只要你是中国的税务居民,就算是resident of the other contracting state。

但是中国是只要你户籍还在就算是税务居民,所以就符合resident of the other contracting state的标准。

然后因为中国规定出国定居或者加入外国籍(拿到绿卡算出国定居了吧)就应该注销户口(只是规定,实际执不执行是另一回事),所以绿卡拿到之前户口没注销都算resident of the other contracting state。

所以…拿到绿卡之前的学生都可以报5000免税,因为在此之前中国户口的合理存在性导致身份依旧是中国税务居民从而满足treaty的要求???

有没有人解释一下。

同问。之前用学校给的算税务的软件,改成EB身份后依然还是给了tax treaty,但是网上也有说不是F1就没有了。个人感觉tax和身份是两码事,应该还可以claim,只要还是学生?

个人情况类似,律师说是没有的,因为现在已经属于AOS身份不算F1了

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其实到底是哪里规定要claim一定得是F1身份呢?我查了那个treaty,读了一下,感觉有点乱,应该是和residency有关。我个人感觉绿卡之前应该都可以claim。不然的话,undocumented或者走线进来的黑户中国公民在美国上学,也不能claim了?

我读了之后也这么觉得,说只要是中国的税务居民就可以claim。

交了485就算是什么substantial step了,别省这5000税了,绿了多开几张Biz Plat挣回来 :gift_heart:

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问题是485也没有保证能绿…批之前谁知道呢。

对于有些人来说,EB5新政485可能要等两年,所以报税还是得注意一下。

F1才能报treaty吧…所以要claim是non-resident alien,但是交了485应该就是substantial step,应该是claim resident.. 以前也遇到这个问题然后直接按resident交了

Treaty里说了适用exemption需要在美期间仅以接受教育为目的,所以F1是符合的。AP没有办法做这种claim吧,毕竟也可以自由退学、找工作等了

F1就算resident alien也可以用treaty的

那你属于哪一个呢?

之前F1算你做optional practical training,你现在不是了。你工作也就是普通打工人,不是什么trainee contract,所以啥都不符合呀。

照你这么说,F1还能开公司,也能投资买房出租有被动收入。那是不是干了这些的F1就不能claim了呢?我感觉这句话没什么意义,太模糊了。

一个F1在读但是买了10套房出租,投资几千万刀炒股年入百万,合伙开20间公司当股东但是不运营只拿分红

一个F1在读交了485拿到了AP没干任何上面那位F1的事情,但是假期去加拿大玩了几天用AP回来继续读书。

你觉得哪个更符合在美期间仅以接受教育为目的

在校student呀。如果是phd毕业前就拿到AP,那也算student并且有学校内income的。

收入低的话就大胆claim,IRS对于中低收入的audit率很低的

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F1

你这个例子里的行为(投资)属于被动,既可以“在美国”也可以不在美国做,所以他有没有做这些被动投资影响不大。另外,F1在移民法的定义就是学生(包括training),所以F1比parolee更容易符合“学生”的定义理所应当。反过来,你有绿卡也能读书,也可以同时符合中国税务居民的定义,也可以argue有5000呢。

我明白你的意思,但是逻辑上来说,F1属于学生,但是不代表学生只有F1。这个也是我觉得这个规定有问题的关键所在,整个treaty对这些合法美国身份没有描述。更何况,税法和移民法本身很多定义就是不一样的。

整体看来,整个treaty其实是规范那些在理论上在中美两国都要交税的人,也就是两国的税务居民,甚至几乎和实际国籍没有关系。chintech.pdf 是整个treaty的technical explanation。以下两个paragraph分别对应一楼的两个paragraph。

Paragraph 1 lists several criteria which may be used in domestic law to determine residence for tax purposes. Citizenship is not one of the criteria; thus a U.S. citizen resident in a third country is not treated as a U.S. resident for purposes of this Agreement. The reference to persons “liable to tax” is not meant to exclude organizations of either country which are tax-exempt under special provisions of its domestic law, such as charities. However, it would not include a person liable to tax only in respect of income from sources in the taxing country, such as a resident of a third country subject to tax in the United States or China only on a source basis.

Paragraph 2 provides that, where an individual is considered to be a resident of both Contracting States under their respective domestic laws, the competent authorities shall consult together to determine of which State the individual shall be a resident for purposes of the Agreement. In making that determination, the competent authorities will be guided by the rulesof paragraph 2 of Article 4 of the United Nation’s Model Double Taxation Convention between Developed and Developing Countries. (See Article 5 of the Protocol.) Those rules are the same as the rules contained in the corresponding paragraph of the OECD and U.S. Models. The first test is where the individual has his permanent home. If he has a permanent home in both countries the second test is where his personal and economic ties are closer (center of vital interests). If that test is inconclusive, or if the individual does not have a permanent home in either State, the next test is his place of habitual abode. The fourth test is nationality. If the individual is a national of both States or of neither of them, the competent authorities are instructed to settle the issue so as to assign a single State of residence. Once established under this article, the residence of the individual remains the same for all purposes of the Agreement。

里面还列了一些别的文章我就没再去找了。我个人认为这个treaty和移民法指的在美身份没有关系,仅和税法上的税务身份有关系。也就是说,即使是走线过来读书的黑户中国人,也能报这个5000。但是一旦有了绿卡,美国税务局可能就不承认你是中国的税务居民了,所以就可能不给你报了。

我理解可能有误,欢迎讨论。

是的。Article 20的technical notes完全没有任何关于immigration status的论述,就说“for the purpose of education, training or obtaining technical experience shall be exempt from tax”。我感觉只要是full time student,就可以继续用。之前用学校sprintax试验了一下把身份从F1换成Employment based,绿卡pending,结果sprintax依然告诉我可以claim treaty benefits

我们学校是只要不是F1,就不会自动把收入的5000变成1042S。所以之后我要报的话,还得手动弄。我觉得他们都没考虑到AP身份,因为我提交了485收据和combo卡给学校之后,直接系统就把我当PR了。他们说只有F1,PR,公民或者是undocumented这四种,所以就选了个最接近的PR给我…我甚至还建议他们加上AP这个选项…

感觉都是这样,学校根本没有AP选项,报税直接手动turbotax -5000就行

瞧你们被pua那样
USCIS只看你报税了没有

  1. 你到底挣几个million会被irs audit到
  2. 真audit到了 还不允许报错吗

:yaoming:

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